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Yhooo…your speaking Afrikaans to the minority of this country just turned me off in a big way and spoiled my listening to your would be beautiful speech since I stopped immediately afterwards. You've just given the racists the glorification that you were meant to be speaking against for you've bent over backwards to speak to them and address them in the language that they purport to be superior to the blacks…you remember what the 1976 uprising was about perhaps? Hayi you just lost me and my respect mntase flat out. Thanks but no thanks.
1. Afrikaans does not equal racist.
2. If you want to influence people you need to speak their language.
So if you are Zulu speaking, should we assume you are a murderer?! this is getting old, If you are Afrikaans speaking, you are a racist, Wake up people, language does not govern your behaviour, it is action!! So should I assume, that if there is a black farmer, or a black trader who addresses me in Afrikaans, he is aracist. Actually exactly the opposite, people that speak afrikaans in most cases, irrespective of their colour or culture. are decent people – this is my experience…your resoning is stupid – couldn't think of another non-offensive word that properly describes this…
Most Coloured people are Afrikaans speaking, so does your reasong extend to them? Again, language does not govern your behaviour, it is actions. Thus I pose you this question, are all Zulu speaking people murderers?! And then, is murder or racism worse? Generalisations like these is designed as propaganda, and only incites people to violence and irrational hate speech and actions. Most people promoting this hate speech and violence weren't even affected by apartheid. yet they promote all the issues, with none of the solutions. What is your actual agenda then?
Dominic Yoko Well said!
Andrew Warren
No certainly Andrew I agree with you…I'm an educated man and fully grasp that concept but if that invoked that emotion on me, how much more unto others? Unfortunately the Apartheid regime is synonymous with racists and it was Afrikaneers government that charged hence it still appears as if majority of racists are Afrikaneers just like it seems that the blacks are the criminals. We can't help that. In actual fact though, the majority of racists are still Afrikaneers if we admit the truth. They unfortunately paint all the Afrikaneers bad so the non-racist ones must stand and speak against it among friends and families otherwise they're also part of the problem inadvertently.
…again the std, typical steriotyped assumption that "we" do not beleive that wrongs were done, also has the audacity to draw parallels to the Jewish holocast in Germany, over 6 million murdered, the SA indigenous were not murdered &/or eradicated, what about the American Indians, 30 million murdered, Aborigenaries, millions murdered. The whites voted in a refferendum, over 80% majority, yes, over 80% agreed that apartheid was WRONG and voted for change, apologies, I did not even get to the Afrikaans, how can you when the basis of her discussion/argumnet is completely flawed.
The failure of Mendela is understandable. Firstly, Mandela was just one man, where the hell where all the other people in the struggle, who form up all his ministers doing? Where was the base to keep these people accountable? Why haven't Zuma or Mbeki done anything to imprison and hunt down these apartheid criminals like the jews in israel have done to the nazis. See stop blaming Mendela, it is not too latte to hunt down apartheid criminals. Start NOW.
Active retribution, explain? I listened not to respond but to understand, To many genarlisations for me. The old story of scholar in his blazer smoking seen by public now whole school bad. I don't struggle with my role in the new SA. I do not have a problem with someone speaking another language, I respect all, I respect other cultures and religions, so why should I now walk around with ash on my head. I have for 30 years worked tirelessly to off set the effects and impact of Apartheid in my sphere of influence. It is good that you advocate discusion and debate, however will you be able to listen to understand and not listen to respond. There are problems, there are ineqaulities, there are social issues that need to be redressed, can't find a way to apply active retribution in this regard.
Mkululi you taking this out of context. Why dont you speak khio or san or nama. In South Africa Khio and San and Nama should be the only and first language of SA
I'm an Afrikaans speaking South African. I do agree that inherently the word Afrikaner is racist term as it was and is used for only white speakers of that language. In Afrikaans we say Amerikaner for any person who lives on the continent (Amerika in Afrikaans) so logically the word Afrikaner should in Afrikaans refer to all people from the African continent (Afrika in Afrikaans). The word was originally coined by a Dutch farming contractor who had enough of the corruption and oppressive rule of the Dutch East Indies Company's officials. He exclaimed "I am an Afrikaner" in Dutch to show his disdain of his oppressive country, Holland, and the officials representing it, and to say that from now he is an African, he choose Africa as his motherland. Following that there were quite a number of white Dutch men who married African or freed slave woman. One of them was Coenraad Buys, a rebel and a hunter who ended up starting an African clan in the area of Venda. There are also a number of examples of British men that followed a similar route. This trend stopped when more and more European woman came to live in South Africa. This is not to say that woman are more racist but the company officials were definitely concerned that their employees get to friendly with the locals and therefore introduced segregation laws and brought in more European woman to stop the trend. The Europe these men came from was as oppresive if not more than South Africa under colonial rule (I include all periods of colonial rule, not only of the Dutch and Afrikaner in this comment. Most of it was under the flag of the British Empire). Democracy in Europe only truly happened after WW1 when the ruling class knew that they will have revolutions all over Europe if they do not introduce democracy.
And yes, as an Afrikaner I still hear racist comments coming from white South Africans, English and Afrikaans speaking. Some Afrikaners are just a bit less skilled in the art of diplomacy so they are apt to show their racism more openly. So one cannot deny that racism is alive and well in South Africa. But on the other hand, Afrikaners such as Bram Fischer, who was the trial advocate for President Mandela during the Rivionia treason trial, was a full blood Afrikaner. His grandfather was an importanty official, I think the Judge President, in the Oranje Vrystaat, an Afrikaner colonial state that existed until the Anglo-Boer war. And then of course there was Beyers Naude, who was an Afrikaans dominee (reverant) in the Dutch Reformed Church until he changed his political attitude at the Cottesloe World Council of Churches conference in the early 60s. Another very brave enemy of the Apartheid State (who had majority white support among even English speaking South Africans!) was journalist and editor Max Du Preez who in his newspaper the Vrye Weekblad placed stories against the Apartheid goverment that not even the Weekly Mail (now sold out Mail & Guardian, a propoganda tool for the global banksters) would dare to publish. But having such an aversion against Afrikaans and probably being to young, you never read. If you did, it is strange that you make the statements you do.
To summarise, you make that crucial mistake that ALL racist make and that is to judge a book by it's cover. You take one attribute of a group of people and you judge them according based on that one attribute to also have many other bad attributes even if the attribute you use is neutral, positive or negative. So in your uninformed and racist mind you judge all Afrikaners to be racist monsters and also, to be the only racist monsters that ever walked this planet. You are very happy to use the English language being blisfully unaware that about a 100 times more people were killed and oppressed by English speakers. First people from Britain and later, by the English speaking Americans, Australians and Nieu Zeelanders. And of course, in all the other British colonies including what is now Zimbabwe and Zambia (formely Northern and Southern Rhodesia). Since WW1 America is the leading colonial country and uses economic and military power to control most countries in the world. If you were an honest person, you would not use the English language at all. Even less than you would use Afrikaans. Language is a tool my friend, the user of the tool can be a racist or not.
This Womyn was not speaking to you, nor was she asking for your respect Mkululi. She was making a very pertinent point that tied in with the theme of her speech. I am not a fan of the language myself but if you actually LISTENED to what was being said, her bilingualism was used to defend Afrikaans people of colour and to add to her point that the face of the Afrikaans person in this country is not a white face.
People need to start listening and stop feeling so entitled to their own opinions. Other people know better and are smarter sometimes so thula wena.
This speech was brilliant.
There is a significant number of people speaking Afrikans in South Africa. There are also a surprising number of Universities worldwide that offer Afrikaans as a subject. The focus is Afrikaans the language, not the race it belongs to or the political party that uses it as a weapon. For a language to be a language it has to comply to a number or requirements. This was achieved by Afrikaans some years ago when it was recognised as a certified world langauge with attributes not contained in the "traditional" languages. A truly modern language. That is what we need to focus on; the development and maintenance of the language and not who speaks what dialect and / or who demands the ownership of it. This process needs a university or similar institution to constantly monitor the effectiveness and validity of the language. It is there for all who wish to use it. Take English, the recognised world language. Does that mean that the Universites of Oxford and Cambridge must now abandon their role of custodians and start speaking Arabic because their are more Islamic students than other? Yet Afrikaans is being destroyed in the name of race hatred and politics. Focus people, what are you trying to do?
Hayi dude you're way out of line trying to be defensive on a matter indefensible. Firstly, that lady was definitely not addressing coloureds there and you know it. Why would she address coloureds? Then she would have addressed the blacks in black languages then. So due to your gross misconnection of relatively too simple dots based on the baselessness defense and accusation seeming stance of your response, I'm only left with concluding that debating or engaging you on this matter will be a waste of time and a futile exercise for the both of us. So I'm just gonna save myself the frustration of trying to make you understand as there's a high chance that you may never comprehend regardless of how many sensible points of argument may be made to you.
Basil Claassens
Hayi dude you're way out of line trying to be defensive on a matter indefensible. Firstly, that lady was definitely not addressing coloureds there and you know it. Why would she address coloureds? Then she would have addressed the blacks in black languages then. So due to your gross misconnection of relatively too simple dots based on the baselessness defense and accusation seeming stance of your response, I'm only left with concluding that debating or engaging you on this matter will be a waste of time and a futile exercise for the both of us. So I'm just gonna save myself the frustration of trying to make you understand as there's a high chance that you may never comprehend regardless of how many sensible points of argument may be made to you.
Dominic Yoko
I respect your point but you wrong in saying that any person that stands up in front of an audiende in a podium is not speaking to the wide audience whoever is listening and does not demand or command their respect. As I said and I don't blame you for not understanding but as an African man who, in this country was subjected to the slave masters language either directly or through my parents, family and relatives, I take gross offense in being addressed in that language in a sensitive matter relating to the South African politics or the one in topic. Under any other circumstances I would not have had a problem because I love the language. I'm sure, because I've felt it in my circumstance, that the Jews will be as offended if they were to be addressed in German on an issue relating to Nazism. So dominic…you don't understand my feelings on the matter and you never will. Some Africans could continue listening but some couldn't and I'm one of those that couldn't but each Africans differing impact of this to them is real and must be respected both ways. You saying if I had LISTENED….thats bigoted of you and insulting to assume that I understand Afrikaans. Why would you? I would never dare speak my language to an audience of whites as that's divisive and shows disregard for those who don't understand my language and it'll be silly of me to say to them if only they LISTENED!! Don't you think? Mind you, the whites have been in SA for over centuries.
Hayi Basil I think I think your responses are childish now cause you know yourself that what you're saying is not true and we're targeting those people who really are the culprits of what we're talking about here. Yes….unfortunately most murders are blacks because my majority they are the ones who are coming from societies infested with the elements making them to be like that on top of them being more in numbers. E.g. In numbers, which people are mostly murderes between whites and blacks if 30% of whites are murderers and there's 10 million whites and 12% of blacks in a population of 30 million blacks?
Again, which people are mostly likely to be racists in this country between blacks and whites in reality? Your guess is as good as mine on this one.
Mkululi you taking this out of context. Why dont you speak khio or san or nama
Cde Mbali: she is Nigerian, and, therefore her point of reference is clinical, and, detached!
Nikiwe November That doesn't matter Nikiwe….you understand the deep feelings of the history of the people and not just from an academic research or writing point of view but from their roots before you make bold statements about it if you didn't live it. I didn't even know she was from Nigeria….I actually thought she was South African which shows to prove that I wouldn't have agreed with this even if done by a South African. Especially on a paper presentation.
Brian Adams
Imagine me presenting to Khoi sans something on their history and use their oppressors language in addressing them. How will that be? Very few people speak Khoi nowadays…even our own black South African languages are facing their own extinction. Hence I don't speak it…there's virtually no one to speak it with.
George Lakoff, a professor of those two disciplines at the University of California at Berkeley, defines FRAMES as the "mental structures that shape the way we see the world." Lakoff says that frames are part of the "cognitive unconscious," but the way we know what our frames are, or evoke new ones, springs from LANGUAGE.
Andrew Warren It is tue that not all Afrikaans speaking people are racist, however I think it is self serving to assert that to influence people you need to paek their language. The history of Afrikaans to many Bantoes does not follow that logic. Inteads it was and still is an experience of brute force…..as reflected in a female Afrikaans speaking office worked questioning what kind of South African am if I don't understand Afrikaans. Power in all its manifestation is the source of influence, but most importanlty it is the power of the purse that reings supreme!
Tsholetsa Mj Maditsi Well said, a good place to start is to follow Nelson Mandela's example & dream, the hate that has purposely been build on in SA is possibly the biggest problem. What many blacks fail to realize is that many whites were ignorantly & "innocently" but complicently supporting the apartheid government, but when informed, the majority realized their error, voted for change & stopped supporting the injust system, this is in contrast to the present ANC supporters, they were possibly ignorant, but are now well informed regarding the inherant & gross corruption, stealing & dishonesty, yet unlike the whites, continue on the path of gross injustice & error. The result of this is what is incorrectly described by the lady speaker as her confused white friends, we cannot understand that after 22yrs, why veryone else is at fault, everyone else is continually blamed, accused, hated, murdered, raped, but a 100% black government has been 100% in charge for over 22yrs. These events and tragedies are not new & not specific to SA, it has been going on for 100's of years with many other races & countries, none of them are wining, blaming, feeling sorry for themselves, & continually hating as the blacks do, most who those other nations who survived got over it and went on to succesfully build their nation & their lives, look at the Jews, (and they actually have a reason to hate), who do they hate & blame, no-one, but are today one of the strongest & most intelligent nations on the planet, remember the Irish were treated far worse than the blacks ever were, there is a preconceived idea that whites hate blacks, incorrectly so, we do not, we dislike uselessness, & that is color blind, black, white, green, purple, yellow, if a person is "useless", (steals, corrupt, dishonest, lies, ect, I call it a non contributer to the country &/or the human race), they are useless, irrespective of color. Nelson Mandela had a reason to hate, like the Jews & Irish, he left his hate in the cell when he was released, blacks will have to follow his example, because together is the only way we can build a new & better country for all.
Sometimes we need to hold back in going into a laager and engage at a little higher level to understand the nounces of arguments. That peoples all over the world were subjected to one form of inhumnity is the essence of the history of mankind. What maybe needs our attention in this moment is how then do we recincile the need to move forward while acknowledging that injustices were commited. The injustices committed in the pursuit of making life a little more better to those voting for us and supporting us in the political/social and economic developement. At individual level progress maybe made albeit slow, but at the societal level there seem to be little of that in evedence.
Tsholetsa Mj Maditsi Like your discussion, and possibly yes did get sidetracked when again as usual a discussion started with the fact the we are "blind" or don't realize what wrongs were commited, how could 80% plus of white SA's not realize and then vote for change. Just curious, if as you say, it was such a controlled, deliberate & well worked out orchestarted plan, why are you not considering the possibility that many whites were ignorantly supporting apartheid & just going on with their dayly lives, while being fed lies every day by the state controlled media. I was enrolled & did 2yrs national service & was 100% under the "propogated" opinion that I was doing the right thing. Similarly as per your discussion if the majority of the ANC supporters were & are ignorant regarding the rediculous levels of corruption, lies & looting, and are "fooled" by rhetoric & state baised reporting, that would then also classify as a state of rationalisation or ignorance not seen until today, that being according to your own analisys, if not then you are saying that they are not ignorant at all, and thus complicit, participating & agreeing supporters of what & how the ruling party is running the country. It has to be considered that on either side, due to well worked out plans, rhetoric & propagnda, both governments were & are relying on very "busy" human beings that have a belief that their governments are honest & honerable, thus then easily fooled, this happened then & is happening now, as many ANC supporters are still going to vote ANC even though the country is, unkowingly to them, 100's of trillions in debt, 100's of billions "missing", virtually on junk status & headed for an abyss. I cannot contemplate that an intelligent human being who knowingly & willingly understands just 50% of what this government is doing & is still willing to support it whole hartedly, there has to be a propaganda influence & variations of "ignorance", …..this will then logically exclude those parties who are actually on & riding the gravy train. Must understand human nature, the silent self absorbed "busy" "agreeing" component is a serious problem in all societies, they only wake up when the "pain" starts affecting them personally. !!!!!
"What many blacks fail to realize is that many whites were ignorantly & "innocently" but complicently supporting the apartheid government, but when informed, the majority realized their error, voted for change & stopped supporting the injust system, this is in contrast to the present ANC supporters, they were possibly ignorant, but are now well informed regarding the inherant & gross corruption, stealing & dishonesty, yet unlike the whites, continue on the path of gross injustice & error" – these words makes me wonder if you realy understand what you wanted to bring across!
You do realise that apartheid was not an accident, but a well thought out and deliberate programme. It has been in the making since the anexation of the land by those people. How many years it took to come to fruition I can not say at this stage.
To assert that from the time of Hertzg to Botha there were people who did not realise the effect of their policies and action is a show of either ignorance or rationalisation I have not seen until today.
Corruption, stealing, patronage et al are the by-product of capture of the state. The wars and civil strives that preoccupiees the world are rooted in theses illls. ANC members and supporters do not monopilise these ills.
So in being mad at the corrutption and attendant ills, one must be careful not to start associate this with race/ethnic grouping at the exclusion of others. For doing that exposes the underlying othering of those you disagree with. Something is wrong if the society we live in has determined it to be so. What race or ethnic identity condone wrong things is neither here nor there.
I have the feeling that you do not understand the gist of the Speech given at Stellenboch convocation. And that is a great pity!!!!
Thabo Matshego the answer is simple. Afrikaans people built this university. With Afrikaans tax money. For years Afrikaans money carried the institution and still does. When your financial contribution carries the university, you can uplift any language you wish. Show me what other ( of the official 11) languages' people contributed to this, or any other Afrikaans university as much as Afrikaners did. Same with most other significant businesses in this country. Now piss off and go talk bull somewhere else. Or at least appreciate the privileges you have as result of Afrikaner history, you unthankful idiot.
Berkold Enderstend Lay off the crack, and go eat your swiss cheese, you wild animal, go play with your holocaust money, you jew eating german.
Bradley Kisia
I hear you but I'm tired of rhetoric. We all know about the past injustices, the plight of blacks in this country etc. so hearing another person speak about them eloquently won't help but I'll just be wasting my time. What's important is that the people that need to change listen to it and get the message such that they're moved enough to make the much required changes to our society.
Mkululi Mbali you should listen. I don't understand Afrikaans, but she had some points. Listen to the whole thing
Charlene Beukes Racism is a systematic discrimination, please do not make up a definition to meet your point. It's the ranking of "race" within a society..
Bradley Kisia…Thanks Brad. I also get discouraged by rhetoric. We all know about the injustices of the past, the plight of the black people of this country etc. So listening to another person saying eloquently won't really change much from my perspective. What's important is that the people that need to change listen to this and get the message and get touched enough to change.
Mkululi Mbali , on your question about who's most likely to be "RACIST" in south Africa. If we go on the precise meaning of the word, I would say that there are no people MOST likely to be racist.Everybody who makes a statement based on a specific race, is being racist. Your question, for example mentions "between blacks and whites" is racist, because your question allready implies two different qualities to 2 different races. . let me also point out, if you as a black guy(and yes me calling you by your race is also being racist), for example was giving the better quality to the white race it is still racism., (by the precise definition of the word.,).
As a white person, yes I am racist. I see white people and i see black people, that is racist. But it does NOT automatically imean I think whites are superior.
Last year some time I read an article on (black) children that died with the bush circumcision, I was in shock, I was horrified. During that shock I was thinking I F#### hate you all.( Because you can allow that).That does not mean I feel/believe I am superior.. After my shock subsided I was just sad.(didnt hate anyone). I think it is the only time in my life I actually felt pure HATRED for another race, This made me think that it is possible that south african racism is often not about skin colour iit has more culturism. I can imagin believe that many things in a white culture causes pretty much the same kind of hatred in a black person, simply because such cultural action simply goes against your grane.(belief system etc).It is eceptionally hard to feel tolerant and loving towards anyone that behaves in a way that is appalling to oneself.
As a white person, I have deicded i am NOT going to apologise for apartheid. "die goeie ou dae " is for example about clean streets, it is not about white supremacy, It is about the rand being more valueable than it is now, lower taxes, lower prices and offcourse younger days.(these have NOTHING racism.)
Furthermore, we are dealing with a lot of "gaslighting" regarding apartheid.(read up on the meaning of that if you are interested). As far as forgiveness goes,Mandela likely knew, forgivess sets you free. Forigvess does not mean you think iwhat happened, is okay. Forgivess has little to do with the person that did something bad to you.(or your ancestors)
I do agree though that white people are insignificant when it comes to politics and political power.I do also believe that the majority of whites already know that and are very likely happy about that.It gives white people freedom too, freedom to excell in other fields.
In my own opinion politics is the most demotivating, depressing, uninspiring ,emotionally crippling field anyone can get into. It doesnt mean though we have no right to complain when we feel the governemt who we pay taxes too, for certain purposes, is not using that tax for said purposes,Having said that though, we would probably complain even if we didnt pay taxes.:). Thanks for reading my post, sorry about its length!
SA should have gotten ridden of them as we did in Angola
Jessica Mayouya I was not making up anything, I provided my understanding of the word racism.
Can't agree with you more sister , tell them to repent
Donald Dick "Just curious, if as you say, it was such a controlled, deliberate & well worked out orchestarted plan, why are you not considering the possibility that many whites were ignorantly supporting apartheid & just going on with their dayly lives, while being fed lies every day by the state controlled media."
"Similarly as per your discussion if the majority of the ANC supporters were & are ignorant regarding the rediculous levels of corruption, lies & looting, and are "fooled" by rhetoric & state baised reporting, that would then also classify as a state of rationalisation or ignorance not seen until today, that being according to your own analisys, if not then you are saying that they are not ignorant at all, and thus complicit, participating & agreeing supporters of what & how the ruling party is running the country".
These two qoutes from above highlight the rationalisation of the assertion that only ignorant, uninformed and uninteligent people can support Apartheid and or the ANC. In my view this is flawed. It excuses people of their rationality and at the extreme it sound condescending. People support ideas and political parties because they rightly or wrongly believe that it articulates their own views about what needs to happen. Let me use this simple example….from 1948 to 1978, did it not occur tho 80% of whites that racial classification deliberately kept people out of resources and opportunities to look after themselves? On a human level why do you think it eas necessary to codify personal relationships in law? These were not politicians initiated decisions. Politicians were implementing what their contituencies demanded of them or else they lost their positions.
As to current situation the same logic still applies, today's politicians are no different and so are their supporters. They are looking to maximise advantages for themslves first, if it helps others good luck, and still if others are adversely affected, tough luck.
It is too easy to relgate much of what is happening or happened to ignorance and propaganda. It is my considered view that people go into these situations with their eyes opened, hoping others would not see or if they do are too unconcerned to want to do anything about it.
If the problem is the Afrikaanse language, the best way to prevent all this animosity,start call it Dutch because it is basically the same language. Problem solved.
Tsholetsa Mj Maditsi I really enjoy you point of view & discussion, I cannot disagree with it, your interpretation holds true, but I find it a little idealistic, you give people, and rightly so, the benefit of the doubt that they are awake & aware of what is going on around them, probably because you yourself are aware & personally make sure that your own eyes are open, it is an honouble trait that I also try to attain to, that being of holding one self resposable & accountable. I was once an optimist, but now lean towards being a realist, so sadly I find most humans & human nature very self absorbed & selfish, this I find being backed up by history, other shocking examples, the Jewish holocast-6M, Native Americans-30M, Aboriginaries-10M, Stalin & Russia-100M, Radovan Malosovic-300 000, Idi Amin-500 000, Mugabe-?, Moa Tse Tsung-5M, North Korea-millions, China-millions, Muslim faith-millions, Shaka Zulu-2M, Apartheid – 21 000, ANC rule – 400 000, ect. If one takes all these atrocities & applies your approach, the understanding that most of the people were aware & awake, there eyes open, this will then cast an extremely black evil cloak over all of humanity, it will also imply that you are fully aware of the all of the ANC's corruption, stealing, thieving, nepotism, murdering & killings, all of their so called "atrocities", that being as per your interpretation, you will then be an agreeing, complicit participant, as you are awake & aware. I tend to be slightly more leanient, I am willing to accept human nature, though not inherently evil, but allowing evil to take place basically due to National pride, allegiances, ignorance, apathy, propoganda, ect, ect, ect, or just plainly because it does not affect them, please note that this in no way excuses them of some or any guilt, but this being the silent "accepting" majority that I personally tend to "blame" for leaders & governments getting away with present & past atrocities. I personally have to take this point of veiw as the other option is just to , incomprehensible, humanity as a whole cannot be so evil, yes certain individuals & groups, but not the majority. This approach will also conjure up huge feeling of hate & revenge to any of the victim groups, as the assumption can then be made that everyone is vitrually 100% complicit, deliberately & purposly participating in most if not all of the atrocities & were horrifically a participating & agreeing party. This exact approach is what the ANC is propagating & exasperating with comments & beliefs that only whites can be racists, and there most hateful comment, all whites are racists, consider this carefully & then one understands where all the hate is coming from. I I can show you 1000's upon 1000's of whites that fought against apartheid, did you know that 620 000 whites died in the American civil war for one purpose & one purpose ONLY, to abolish slavery & give blacks their freedom. The solution is clear, people & blacks specifically must get themselves informed, (cease being ignorant), only 21 000 blacks killed during apartheid rule, 1948-1993(45yrs), & almost 2/3's of the killings was black on black, Shaka Zulu murdered 2 million blacks. Africa is rife with Dictators using blacks to murder blacks. Under ANC rule, 1993-2016(23yrs), 400 000 people have been murdered, apartheid was a hateful system, it is gone & it is time to follow Nelson Mandel's example, leave the hate behind to build a new & better SA for all. Search Juju Mkise, UCT SRC President, interesting peice by a HERO as per Nelson Mandela's definition. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/statement-juju-mkize-src-president-university-cape-town-upton. Enjoy "debating" with you, kind regards, Donald.
Hogwash!
We are all brothers and sisters as our blood is the bearer of our eternal incarnating individual Spirit.
Rhodes was a member of the NWO globalist mass murderers.
Gogo Ji class!
Funny how when Black people speak of reparations, ill gotten wealth, oppression, racism, colonialism etc, they only name white perps, but they completely forget the likes of Shaka Zulu and Dingane who wrre some of the worst perps in this counrty on human rights! They conveniently forget the acts of oppression, slavery and racism committed by their own forefarthers…………..
Donald Dick One of the consistent thread through your post is the aversion to find brutality from white people especially the ones that are supposedly civilsed. Your arguements seems intend on finding fault with the ANC in particular and ignorant/uneducated/uninformed blacks in general.
I still maintatin that this is flawed logic. The history of mankind is frauth with brutality across the board. In the propensity to visit evel deeds and atrocities mankind has proven to observe no colour/race or creed. None o the regions of the world can claim to be better than others.
The question then is how do we deal with this now and going forward?
To a certain extend some societies have started to chart a wayforward that does not believe in the used of brute force to manage human/societal conflicts – e.g. the Scandanavian countries. The United Nations as strcutred is not a good vehicle to ensure that. In the recent past it has been captured by theh bullies to their dirty jobs.
Until we truly learn to acknowledge our differences as different races, there will always be racism. I will not be defined and judged by the sins of my fathers, neither will I appologise for them. I will not be defined by appartheid just because I am white, if you wish to do that, then you are racist, plain and simple. True reconsiliation comes when you truly learn to forgive. What Nelson Mandela was saying is that the black populations needs to be better than the white appartheid regime and forgive. He is looking down on us right now in frustration.
And here's the thing, sure the Nazis were bad, sure appartheid was bad, should something more have been done in 1994? Probably, yes, but it didn't. So let's not look back to the old days and not harp on about "our struggles" with your unniversity degrees. Let's see how we can build our futures together as a united country not a seperated country.
But your argument of how Nazi things in Germany are criminalized and so should appartheid things be taken the same way here in SA, is comlpetely irrelevant. And I would be willing to debate that with anyone who questions this.
Charlene Beukes never apologise for something well done. Your perspective is positive and lends itself to the truth. Think about yourself looking into a mirror, what is the reflection you see? It is only ourselves, but a refelction of ourselves, not a physical being. We all have a choice on how to influence this reflection – this is the way the world sees us and interprits our behaviour. Should we choose to behave poorly, speak down to people or be racist, do we expect this reflection to mirror our behaviour? If it does, what is the influence it has on others? How do we experience the reflection of other people? The only way to positively influence our reflection is to behave as we want others to….. you cannot blame others for this reflection, as it is only YOU that can influence it, by choice of behaviour or speech. Do not expect to be treated any different from how others do, unless you change this reflection of yourself….!