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5 Neil deGrasse Tyson Quotes on ‘Cosmos’ That Get The Side-Eye

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson is a world-renowned astrophysicist who has won the admiration of the scientific community, and laymen alike, with his inviting and sometimes entertaining personality. People of all ages and ethnic backgrounds are taking interest in learning because Tyson has introduced science into pop culture. On March 9, 2014, Tyson extended his knowledge to television audiences by hosting the first episode of “Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey”, which is produced by Seth McFarlane (creator of “Family Guy,” “The Cleveland Show” and “American Dad”) and distributed by 20th Century Fox. The concept of the show is a follow-up to the “Cosmos: A Personal Journey,” produced by Tyson’s mentor and friend, the late Carl Sagan.

Tyson is making history with every word he writes and speaks. However, he falls short when it comes to delivering historical information on his series. The narrative driving “Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey” is presented from a Western, Euro-centric perspective. Some statements made on the show are historically inaccurate. Other statements clearly place importance on European contributions to science while excluding discoveries made by other cultures. Racial and cultural inclusion within science history would make the information he provides on “Cosmos” accurate and empowering to all.

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120 thoughts on “5 Neil deGrasse Tyson Quotes on ‘Cosmos’ That Get The Side-Eye

  1. I would suggest that the writer of this article watch more of the show. He does a good job of spreading around the credit where it is due. so stop with the hate til the first season is over.

  2. The writer of this article doesn't deserve their position. Obviously, this person has an extremely paranoid cognitive process, is prone to conspiracy and is less educated than their readers. To bad, this reflects poorly on K. Abel and the credibility of the Atlanta Black Star. Poorly thought out, vague as all get out and a display of the ignorant minded folk sought by the Atlanta Black Star. Maybe the sports section?

  3. Tom Davidson says:

    No, his statement is correct. There were no telescopes that long ago, and people could only see that stars that were visible to the naked eye. That includes Europeans AND Egyptians. The Egyptians didn't bring us the telescope and the resulting exponential exposure to the greater universe. That came out of Europe with the invention of the telescope.

  4. Tom Davidson says:

    Once again, the Egyptians may have had some grasp of the movement of the stars, the passage of time. That does not mean that they had a grasp on the Laws of Nature. They didn't understand gravity, atomic structure, chemistry, electromagnetism, and they could not calculate these laws. Seeing patterns in the observable stars that can be viewed from the vantage point of Earth is not the same as understanding and calculating the Laws that apply to the entire universe. Once again, you aren't paying attention to what he is saying and the specifics of the words he used.

  5. Tom Davidson says:

    And how, exactly, did the "Africans" not have to live through the last ice age? Granted, they may have been in a warmer part of the world, but the ice age was still going on, and the effects of it were global, not regional. Africans had to contend with the ripple effects of the more severe circumstances in other parts of the world. He said nothing about white vs. black, or Neanderthal vs. African. He said "our ancestors" being inclusive and factual. But somehow you find fault even in that. If he's have said that only Neanderthals had to endure the ice age, you'd probably bitch about him not giving credit to Africans. No win with you. Jeez…

  6. Egan Penney says:

    hooookay, let's get this over with

    1: many ancient societies studied the stars. but they did not have either telescopes or the scientific method, both of which were pioneered by ibn al-haytham in iraq, as explained in the most recent episode.

    2: astronomy wasn't always science. it was just documentation. as explained earlier in the series, understanding the motions of the stars was key to human survival from the earliest nomadic tribes. but it wasn't scientific.

    3: neanderthals also came from africa. humans of many kinds migrated out of africa DURING the ice age, and those places that weren't covered by the ice sheets were far from unaffected by it. the point still stands.

    4: the sun is not the centre of the galaxy. the writer of this article lacks even a basic understanding of astronomy. copernicus didn't come up with heliocentrism, described it mathematically. I can find no evidence that heliocentrism was accepted in egypt or india.

    5: dogs were first domesticated in china, not europe

  7. Tre Baker says:

    Incorrect, Kemetic (what you would call ancient Egyptian) knowledge covered the majority of "modern" sciences and even quantum physics, which the average person today still has no knowledge of. I believe you're vastly underestimating the amount of knowledge that has been lost and how many advanced civilizations rose and fell even before Kemet. A good place to start researching this would be with a book entitled Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization.

  8. Tom Davidson says:

    This one I'll give you some credit for. Perhaps not everyone thought everything revolved around the Earth. Sure, there were men of science form various cultures whop speculated on a non-geocentric concept. However, the overwhelming majority of people, as in 99.9999% though the Earth was the center. So basically… everyone. Perhaps he should have said "99.9999% of people" but he didn't.

  9. The author of this article is so uninformed and a race baiter.

  10. Tom Davidson says:

    So basically, what I get out of this article is that we're four episodes in, and the author is basically butt-hurt that not enough time has been spent on Africa and people of color. Well, sorry you're so disappointed. There are 9 more episodes to go, so who knows what he'll discuss? I haven't been overwhelmed with articles written by Nordic people pissed off that he has dissed them. The Australian Aborigines haven't sent a letter to the producer asking for equal time. The Inuits aren't protesting the show. Calm the eff down. At least, because he's black, you can't throw out the Racist Card. He's a black American. I'm sure he and the producers of the show aren't intentionally trying to belittle anyone. I'm sure you'll see details provided of some of the black pioneers of science in future episodes. Give it time..

  11. Tre Baker says:

    Also incorrect. Telescopes are quite primitive instruments. If you have the ability to manipulate crystals or glass and knowledge of light reflection and refraction (which they did), then it is hard to believe that you wouldn't make the small leap to a magnifying glass and then a telescope.

  12. Egan Penney says:

    as far as i can tell, that's an afrocentric revisionist history book

  13. Egan Penney says:

    as was explained in the last episode, the field of optics did not exist until ibn al-haytham founded it

  14. Mark Dwight says:

    What? The sun is not the center of the galaxy. Who wrote this?

  15. Tom Davidson says:

    Tre Baker , then why, if they had that capability, amongst all of the others that you profess they did, do we not find a trail of technology leading out of Egypt? It seems to me that a telescope would have been a VERY BFD, and there would be tons of documentation and evidence top support what you assert.

  16. Luke Stoltenberg says:

    …and what about the Ancient Aliens guy from the History channel? Why hasn't he been interviewed?

  17. Dime Wars says:

    Thank you Tre. The average westerer has no idea about the real knowledge of the ancient world. They think knowledge nature and the cosmos did not exist until Greeks and western Europeans showed up.

  18. Dime Wars says:

    Where is your proof Egan?

  19. Dime Wars says:

    Prove her wrong or should we just take your opinion for it?

  20. Egan Penney says:

    but for this claim, you require no proof whatsoever?

  21. Egan Penney says:

    for what specifically?

  22. uh oh. "white" folks butt hurt someone pointed out the nonsense. and of course they wont actually challenge the article itself. but just go off on tangents..

  23. Trinicenter says:

    I am sorry, but this article though informative appears to have copied ideas from an earlier article online that was published on March 10, 2014. (Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey: A Review of Episode 1 The writer of this current piece made no mention of this earlier article in the notes. I think the opening paragraphs are way too similar to be just a coincidence.

  24. Sonya Perkins says:

    All I can say as a history major you are completely wrong on all of your accounts. Sigh~

  25. @ Egan Penney

    It's very interesting that there are white folks commenting on "Atlanta Black Star."When they do comment, they usually obfuscate and deflect. With that said, lets deal with your first point, the ancient Egyptians had an ACCURATE calendar. In order to have an accurate calendar , you MUST use the scientific method. In regards to telescopes, modern European astronomers still don't understand how the Dogon of West Africa were able to see with their naked eyes the star sirius B.

    The author never implied or stated that neanderthals like other cousins to modern humans did not come out of Africa. Read carefully.

    The point about the "sun being the center of the galaxy"was to point out that the ancients before Copernicus knew that the earth was not the center of what we now call the solar system. Some ancients apparently made no distinction between the solar system, galaxy, and universe, but many ancients understood that our planet wasn't the center, that's the point.

    The author, again is not stating that domestication of dogs started in Europe, but if you saw the cosmos episode you would think that.

  26. I read a similar article to this one on titled “Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey: A Review of Ep. 1” sometime in March that is unequivocally similar to this one. I think this article is too similar to the aforementioned one to be deemed a coincidence.

  27. Sorry and lame shit i was watching the show and i was like thats a lie ,thats a lie, theats a lie , till i gave up

  28. Dime Wars Now you know he got his information.

  29. I have not seen not one of the shows. I have always respected Dr. Tyson, but I am not suprise about what this article says about him, let's face it, I sent him an email several years ago, and suggested he changed his name to an African name, or someone else 100 years down the road will take claim for his work, he responded, "A rose is a rose", something to that effect. I do not believe Dr. Tyson is Africancentered at all, with his white wife and all. After reading this, I will appreciate his work, and just see him as someone who is not proud to be representing African people. He will probably say, no I am not, I am just a man. Whatever Dr. Tyson.

  30. Brennan Holzer says:

    Sonya Perkins , except he's not. "History Major" != "History Expert"

    At least 5 is true, evidence of earliest canine domestication was found in the Razboinichya Cave, which is in Russia near China

  31. Egan Penney says:

    Brennan Holzer but i suppose you think the sun is the centre of the galaxy?

  32. Brennan Holzer says:

    Egan Penney lol wat. I never said anything of the like. Just told her not to speak as an expert on the matter when she may very well be wrong.

    I didn't read all of his points, so now I agree on his point 4 as well. Clearly the sun is not the center of the galaxy

  33. Cree Seven says:

    Normally, I'd have no comment on such a story. I give wide berth to other black people because I know how much power white folks have to take a black person from billions to lock-up or the grave of themselves or a loved one if the black person does not comply with spoken or unspoken commands. But, in this case, I highly doubt Dr. Tyson was in such danger. So, this is one of those cases of punching ourselves in the face that was not necessary and I'm glad the Atlanta Black Star pointed it out. I saw how PBS infantalized him compared to the white hosts of Nova. That should have made him turn down this offer so that he could "spend more time with his family" or something.

  34. meditation is key… Clearly this guy Egan haven't did any real historical research in his years of life. The white mans history contradict it self many times even your so called bible can't get the story straight. They say all the time ancient Egyptians were very knowledgeable about the stars and how they work fuck a telescope meditation is key to finding the real you. But instead our bible tells us that its wrong and or people (ancient Egyptians) conversed with devils…. wtf! Noooo y'all just couldn't do what or people did. We are power signed Young Pharaoh

  35. Egan Penney says:

    every society had a reasonably accurate calendar. that doesn't require the scientific method at all. it just requires careful record keeping and good need to read about what precisely the scientific method IS.

    Sagan wrote about the sirius issue in his book "broca's brain", explaining that the knowledge of it likely came to the dogon via european visitors since the advent of modern astronomy.

    the author DID say that african ancestry was ignored, when all human ancestry is african. neanderthals weren't the only humans living in europe at the time, and the ice age affected the entire world, including africa. the statement that the ice age had a huge impact on our ancestors is true, because all human ancestors were affected by it.

    i can find no evidence whatsoever of any ancient society holding a heliocentric view, be it of the solar system or galaxy. it was proposed, sure, but not accepted.

    you mean the author would assume that.

  36. Jonathan Patrick says:

    Neil deGrasse needs to have an episode entitled: "The universe in fact doesn't revolve around black people"

  37. Love,Love Cosmos that being said it is not under Neil degrasse Tyson hands about the science and astrology from the land of Kemit "Egypt" people can't expect Fox to allow Neil teach anything other than an Eurocentric aspect!

  38. Anonymous says:

    1: To suggest no "scientific method" was used in the gathering of knowledge in AE society is blatantly ignorant. There are surviving medical and mathematical papyri that not only ask a question and give an answer, but show HOW that answer is attained, complete with diagrams that could have only been drawn with a precision writing tool. Even the so called "Pythagorean theorem" is shown. There is nothing scientific about a telescope, which even a 10 year old can build and use. It merely magnifies what the human eye can see. Useless to even bring up.

    2: Again, to precisely engineer complicated earth bound structures like temples and pyramids that perfectly aligned with celestial bodies involves much more that mere "documentation." Your idea of "science" is purely one of ignorant opinion and nothing more.

    3: The article pointed out that not all of our ancestors lived in the "endless winter" of Europe and parts of Asia, which is fact. It said nothing about whether who was and wasn't affected by the Ice Age. Africa for the most part only became dry. Vast lakes and greenery disappeared, and I am not certain there were ever bears, wolves, and mountain lions on the African continent. This comment by Tyson seems to come purely from a european perspective. That point still stands.

    4: The writer misspoke about the center of this galaxy, but it still stands that AE society knew that the sun was "central" in relation to our planet, and neither the Greeks nor copernicus were the first to realize this or "prove it mathematically". To suggest heliocentrism was not accepted in AE society is more pure ignorance. It was a "sun" culture with a solar calendar. It's not as if they did not know of lunar calendars because there are people who STILL live in that region of Africa, namely near Nabta Playa, that use a lunar calendar to this day. They must have chosen the solar version for some reason ya think???

    5: There is no universally accepted idea on where dogs were first domesticated. There are theories for parts of Asia, the "middle east" and Africa. What is known is that dog domestication did occur in the Nile Valley, with even a god that had a dog's head on an otherwise human form (Anubis).

    6: "hooookay, let's get this over with"…. Don't EVER say this stupid s**t on this website again. Keep this in your regular awkward part of the woods. This site is a refuge for most of us here. Don't come polluting it. Thanks!

  39. Amanda Kate Weikert-Ashcraft says:

    They might be making him more infantile because face it, many evangelicals are going to be watching this and wouldn't understand the more advanced scientific language.

  40. Egan Penney says:

    smithlovy 1: science isn't about simple mathematical proofs. science is a specific method of testing, in which a hypothesis is attempted to be falsified. science doesn't mean just any rigorously studied and documented phenomenon. it's a specific method of testing against controls.

    2: that merely requires math. math is not science. you have a funny idea of precision, by the way, as the pyramids don't even have accurate right angles.

    3: as a matter of fact, the ice age drove many northern species south to where we find them today. nice work ignoring asia, by the way.

    4: once again, i can find no evidence whatsoever of heliocentrism predating the pythagoreans. "must have for some reason" is not evidence, it's conjecture.

    5: relevance? the site i found said that genetics have determined that all modern domestic dogs descent from 3 specific females, so going by that, it's likely it started in one place and spread. but it certainly wasn't a european phenomenon as the author assumed.

    6: don't post pseudoscience and pseudohistory on the internet if you don't want sceptics calling you on it

  41. Egan Penney says:

    smithlovy 1: science isn't about simple mathematical proofs. science is a specific method of testing, in which a hypothesis is attempted to be falsified. science doesn't mean just any rigorously studied and documented phenomenon. it's a specific method of testing against controls.

    2: that merely requires math. math is not science. you have a funny idea of precision, by the way, as the pyramids don't even have accurate right angles.

    3: as a matter of fact, the ice age drove many northern species south to where we find them today. nice work ignoring asia, by the way.

    4: once again, i can find no evidence whatsoever of heliocentrism predating the pythagoreans. "must have for some reason" is not evidence, it's conjecture.

    5: relevance? the site i found said that genetics have determined that all modern domestic dogs descent from 3 specific females, so going by that, it's likely it started in one place and spread. but it certainly wasn't a european phenomenon as the author assumed.

    6: don't post pseudoscience and pseudohistory on the internet if you don't want sceptics calling you on it

  42. You are right,In order to have an accurate calendar you need good record keeping and GOOD MATH. The definition of science is,"a knowledge, as of facts or principles, or knowledge gained by systematic study." Now to be fair, I probably shouldn't have used "scientific method"but in order to come up with an accurate calendar, the above is needed. Plus, to my knowledge, not too many societies had one around 4000 B.C. Plus, the author used the word science, he didn't mention the "scientific method."

    Sagan has been debunked By Ivan Van Sertima as it relates to Europeans imparting that knowledge to the Dogon.

    I agree with you , all human ancestry is African, and as the author says discuss not just what happened with us in Europe, but discuss what happened with us in Africa and the rest of that world we populated. A side note, neanderthals, from what I can remember, were the predominate group, if not the only group in Europe for a considerable amount of time before modern humans arrived, and I think there's some controversy on the idea that modern humans mingled with neanderthals.

    I think the reason you can't find any "evidence"for a heliocentric view that is non-western is because you might be unaware of Academics that aren't Eurocentric. Try Ivan Van Sertima, Chiek Ante Diop and there are others, can't think of them now.

    Knowing T.V. particularly western T.V., I'm pretty sure the episode on the domestication of dogs was not a multicultural depiction. And, anybody watching the episode would think it was white folks who domesticated dogs.

  43. Jonathan Patrick Can you explain that.

  44. Jonathan Patrick Can you explain that.

  45. Jonathan Patrick says:

    Yeah the season barely started and they're acting like Neil is a sellout or something. Give the brotha some time. If it was up to Atlantablackstar every episode would be just on black contributions to astronomy..

  46. Anonymous says:

    Egan Penney

    1: How the hell do you think a "proof" is created in the first place? Especially in an environment where this advanced knowledge was always practical in nature (i.e. tested) in different environs for different physical purposes. Whether they used a strict 1,2,3,4 scientific method is almost becoming a silly strawman argument on whether this civilization was "scientific" on how they attained their knowledge at this point.

    2: Math is not science? The f**k are you talking about? You using some special Egan Penney internet definition now? If you are trying to poorly explain science by some very static, goal post moving context, see retort 1. The pyramids are physical structures built on land out of stone thats been standing for thousands of years and of immense weight. The outer casing completely gone at all of them including Giza. Yet, some still find the 3,4,5 and the golden ratio at Giza. Your source must be the same one that you got info on the first tamed dogs from.

    3: When someone mentions the triumvirate of "wolves, bears, and mountain lions", it is obvious the location and "ancestors" they are referring to. That's like mentioning hippos, lions, and hyenas about one place, or tigers, cobras, and elephants about another. The locations and peoples are obvious to most people except those trying to win an internet war.

    4: The very fact that you mentions the "Pythagoreans" should be evidence enough, if you truly know anything about their namesake. Where he learned, whom he often gave credit for his knowledge, the "Egyptian System" and so forth. Here is a hint…Sonches the Egyptian.

    5: Relevance? Saying that the earliest dog domestication occured in China as if that is some sort of gospel. Still don't get the relevance?

    6: Call it what you want. Just don't say stupid s**t on this website like the ones you are used to.

  47. Anonymous says:

    You dense people coming to this website kill me. The author specifically mentioned Tyson's quote of going through a "endless harsh winter", which during the Ice Age, was not what EVERYONE went through. That quote is obviously pointing at one segment of the world. Did Tyson mention the "endless droughts and shrinking reservoirs of water" at all? No? Ok then.

  48. Anonymous says:

    Jonathan Patrick

    How can you even intimate this when no one ever talks about the world revolving around black people in the first place? Websites like this one you can count on one hand compared to the usual eurocentric drivel by the thousands.

  49. Egan Penney says:

    smithlovy 1: whether or not they used the scientific method, which had not yet been created, is exactly to the point. not all discoveries or technologies are scientific. science is a specific method.

    2: you need to research what the scientific method is. the pyramids at giza are as inexact as they can be expected to be considering the age they were created. there wasn't any especially complex mathematics involved in their construction that would indicate that the egyptians were super advanced or were assisted by aliens

    3: personally, those animals make me think of north america. i'm uncertain if there were people here yet then. hippos, rhinoceroses, and elephants were native to northern eurasia at the time. in wooly forms. big cats famously were as well. asia also has several famous bear species today.

    4: i like what it says on the wiki page:

    "Heraclides of Pontus (4th century BCE) said that the rotation of the Earth explained the apparent daily motion of the celestial sphere. It used to be thought that he believed Mercury and Venus to revolve around the Sun, which in turn (along with the other planets) revolves around the Earth. Macrobius Ambrosius Theodosius (CE 395–423) later described this as the "Egyptian System," stating that "it did not escape the skill of the Egyptians," though there is no other evidence it was known in ancient Egypt."

    5: i quoted the first result i got from a google search. that's more than the author was willing to do.

    6: this site seems to be intended for stupid shit like this, judging by the number of people quoting afrocentrist pseudohistory in the comments, let alone the article itself.

  50. Jonathan Patrick What is wrong with that. All your life, my life, and all your children life, black people all over the world have been taught that white people did everything. The curriculum dictates it. It is called white supremacy. I cannot see you complaining.

  51. Jonathan Patrick The article here is right on point. Talk about ignoring African people's contributions to science, or the Cosmos. I cannot see him ignorning the Dogon people, unless he never heard about them. The Dogon people are ancient astrology masters who have NASA in a state of shock and awe. The Dogon people from Mali West Africa have baffed NASA astronauts and rocket scientist ariund the world with their sophisticated and advanced knowledge of the Universe. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent, black skin people. Their involvement in astronomical involement goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC.

  52. Jonathan Patrick If you have children, you should teach them about the Dogon people, it will boost their self esteem. The Dogon Star, scientists call Sirius B wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970. They are saying the Dogon gain this knowledge thousands of years ago, without any known ancient telescopes yet to be found. Just like African people built the pyramids, and they cannot figure out how, you have the same same thing here with the Cosmos, and the Dogon people. It probably was them who built the pyramids. So yes, Dr. Tyson should have, and every opportunity he gets, he should talk about the Dogon people. Our people. Yea.

  53. Jonathan Patrick You sound like you don't like black people. You look like a black man, you know they say we didn't make any contribution to civilization, when it was us, who did everything first. "All history is a current event". Dr. John H. Clarke, a black historian.

  54. Ronald Jones says:

    I see Tyson as being quite proud of his blackness. He may not express it in the way Afrocentrists may want him to, but in an interview he gave several years ago, it's clear that he revels in being a black expert on topics the media and society have perceived as being beyond the realm of black knowledge. Tyson did mention a scientist who theorized the existence of black holes in the 18th century. That scientist was described as having black skin.

  55. Rodney Sanon says:

    Asia and MidEast is Euro now?…

  56. Stop making black people look stupid. Quit typing.

  57. Stop making black people look stupid. Quit typing.

  58. What a shit article.

  59. Anonymous says:

    Egan Penney

    My last reply, because your kind is relentless. You got nothing else to do except to go to black websites and talk stupidity and will do it 24/7.

    1. No one who knows the scientific method and its history repeats what you say. No one at all. I sure can't find any. They all share the consensus that this method had origins in both Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian's store of knowledge. You simply cannot gain the knowledge these people both attained and used in mathematics, medicine, surveying, and philosophy without it. You have got to be some internet eurocentric idiot to say otherwise. Your idea of this method is on the basic high school level.

    2. Again, no specialist in the area of this subject repeats this drivel. Not even very studied eurocentrist who publish books on this subject say this nonsense. But random eurocentric geeks on the internet? On black websites? The only place comments like yours exist.

    3. We are not talking personally for you. And even still you only mention northern Eurasia. Thanks for making my point. Our ancestors lived in another place for a much longer time period surrounded by a different set of animals. Let Tyson know this since you have now learned it.

    4. Read the book, not a paragraph from wiki. There are lots of other books that espouse the same lines of how Greeks did not try to hide where and from whom they acquired much of their ways and knowledge. Books not wiki.

    5. The first result from a Google search. No wonder. Don't go around telling people they are wrong if all you do is Google one search. Its idiotic.

    6. Don't come to this site then. There are lots of other sites that accept your eurocentric pseudohistory without any pushback. Like the Dogon, hidden and remote people hiding from persecution, accepting random white men to teach them something central to their culture. You can go spread that stupid shit other places. Please do.

  60. Darc Rispect says:

    1. Scientific Method: Ask a Question
    Do Background Research
    Construct a Hypothesis
    Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
    Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
    Communicate Your Results

    We humans already do this naturally especially to fix problems. Let me see what happens when I do this oh let me tell my friend about that.

    2. Recording whats going on and deducing a pattern from it and what it'll do in the future cause of what you've recorded is science. In fact all of science is like this. I gather information and then I make a prediction and see if it's right.

    4. So your telling me a society that worships the sun won't put the sun in the center of our solar system. I did a quick search on google, easily proven that India knew of heliocentric theory.

  61. Egan Penney says:

    Darc Rispect 1: the difference is in what kind of test you do. in science you do not try to prove your hypothesis right. you try to prove it wrong. that's the difference. that's what makes science so much more rigorous than mere trial and error experimentation.

    2: that's not science.

    4: it doesn't appear that they knew there was a solar system. like most cultures, they presumed the earth was "the world" and the sun was the thing above shining down. you're talking about what YOU think they WOULD have done, instead of actually finding out what they DID.

    if you actually read the google results, you find that ONE indian mathematician made calculations that SOME have suggested MAY be BASED on a heliocentric model, but others dispute that. that's pretty far removed from "incorporated into everything from spirituality to agriculture"

  62. Egan Penney says:

    smithlovy "black websites"? coloreds only? is that how it is?

    1: read a book about science. sagan's demon-haunted world is a good start. science is a specific method of testing, not a label to describe all human knowledge. the maya and aztecs had mathematics and advanced and detailed astronomical measurements, but they did not have the scientific method

    2: that would be because eurocentrists are as full of shit as afrocentrists. the foundations of the scientific method began in iraq, which is in asia. they began with ibn al-haytham's experiments in optics, where he began the method of empirically testing hypotheses by attempting to FALSIFY them. when he hypothesised that light travelled only in straight lines, he established conditions to attempt to DISprove that hypothesis by testing if light travelled down a curved tube compared to a straight one. i recommend you view the BBC series "science and islam" for more about him. you can find it on youtube.

    3: i just explained to you that those animals were NOT specifically native to africa and southern asia then as they are now. you are making assumptions based on the MODERN geographical distributions of those species, as well as our own, and are being deliberately obtuse about it.

    4: there are lots of books that espouse pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical bullshit. ever read velikovsky? that kind of nonsense is only convincing if you CHOOSE to believe it, and deliberately close yourself off to other information. it's no different from religion or conspiracy theories.

    5: The author did no google searches. but let's do another, shall we?

    "A reconstruction by a joint team of researchers from China and Sweden postulates that humans may have domesticated dogs from wolves as recently as 15,000 years ago. They found that, while most dogs share a common gene pool, genetic diversity is highest in East Asia, suggesting dogs have been domesticated there the longest. Genetic research suggests that all domestic dogs worldwide may have originated from possibly three female wolves.

    The dog, along with the pig, were the earliest animals domesticated in China. Remains of both animals have been found in the oldest Neolithic settlements of the Yangshao (circa 4000 BC) and Hemudu (circa 5000 BC) cultures. Canine remains similar to the Dingo have been found in some early graves excavated in northern China."


    yes, the oldest actual dog remains found in archaeological digs were in russia, but the evidence suggests that the actual domestication began in china. try actually looking stuff up.

    6: there's nothing eurocentric about it. we are talking about a culture absorbing knowledge they couldn't have from people who did have it. again, i would refer you to sagan's "broca's brain", page 81, for more on this. cultures acquire things from each other all the time. ever heard of cargo cults?

    as long as you are going to frame your entire view of history as a fight between continents for bragging rights, you should not be surprised when you end up believing absolute bullshit.

  63. Lots of bad information though…

  64. Cree please research those points the article is completely out of context, they knew about the cosmos but lacked the ability to peer deeper.Also all hominids evolved in Africa.Also the cosmos is made for people who don't already read science articles and peer review every day learning is brilliant but this article is purely emotion zero facts

  65. Cree Seven says:

    Raymond Gonzalez, The ancient Egyptians–who did not just evolve in Africa but were black–laid the foundations of astronomy for Europeans. It may be unknown how, exactly, they knew the procession of stars whose cycles took over 5, 000 years or how they knew the timing of the twin Sirius stars that were not seen by Europeans until 1970. It may have been by some device lost or undiscovered or unacknowledged by modern anthropologists. Or, it may have been by careful observation, record-keeping, and mathematical deduction. But, the calendars they left, the intercontinental marine navigation they did, and the centuries-old traditions of the Dogon people of Mali attest to it. And, white historians, such as Count Volney attested that white folks knew this as a matter of course. Of course.

    I should clarify that when I mentioned the manner in which Dr. Tyson had been infantalized on the Nova series, I was speaking to other material prior to this series having nothing to with this current program. It can be seen in earlier segments like, "How Smart are Animals?"

    BTW, Mr. Gonzalez, are you a black person?

  66. Ronald Jones Good for him, who is it, no sarcasm here, I am into this kind of stuff. Do you think he is familiar with the Dogon people, who saw Sarius B star over 3400 years ago, and they have not found a telescope. And NASA just found the star back in 1970. Hey I love Dr. Tyson, the Dogon people, it is hard to believe what they did, just like no one can believe black people built the pyramids.

  67. Egan Penney says:

    meditation can't give you insight into cosmology. that's absurd.

  68. Egan Penney says:

    van sertima is not a scholar. no unbiased academic takes him seriously. stop getting your information from these bullshit artists

  69. Egan Penney says:

    Nzingha Shabaka

    there is only one history. it does not centre on one continent or another. stop making up fictional alternate histories as if they correct some sort of injustice.

  70. Egan Penney Carl Sagan made too many assumptions about the Dogon without actually knowing about them. Not all there information was oral and most of the information that comes from them is from colonial European anthropologist who are inherently biased. The Dogan had (and still have ) secret societies at which many outsiders are not allowed to understand their findings. Not every African achievement is the result of Europeans.

  71. Yes, clearly there is an equivalence to ignoring the contributions of entire continent of over 1 billion people, the very continent where civilization arose is equivalent to ignoring an ethnic group of several million people. Clearly…

  72. Egan Penney says:

    Vincent Meadows

    but those specific achievements are not possible by other means. that's the very reason people use them for bullshit ancient aliens claims, which is what sagan specifically addressed. he noted that they were aware that saturn had rings, an observation that requires a telescope, but not aware that uranus has rings, an observation not made until 1977.

    it doesn't take bias to see that the only possible source of that information is from other societies who actually had the ability to acquire it.

  73. Egan Penney But you are making assumptions about them without actually knowing how they could came to that conclusion. The Dogon purposely isolated themselves in the interior of the hills of Mali. Most Europeans not only couldn't get to the interior of Mali but actually avoided it because it was dangerous. I also find is peculiar that he never suggested Arab influence even though the have been in the area far longer than European and more access to Shared knowledge of cosmology. This of course is just a bias of an assumption , but to immediately think Europeans could influence a people that are not influenced by there very on is quite a stretch.

  74. Egan Penney says:

    Vincent Meadows

    Because those discoveries were extremely recent. read the book. this information was only discovered in the late 1800s and could only have been passed to the togon after that point. there was a european presence there at the time.

    the whole reason "ancient aliens" types use the dogon as an example is because there is no possible way they could have discovered this stuff independently. so it shouldn't be unreasonable to think they acquired it from people who actually had it.

  75. Egan Penney How could they have not discovered it independently? Because they are African? They discovered the circulatory system independently, Atoms structures independently. Other forms of cosmology and astronomy independently. Did they get everything correct? No but neither did the Greeks or the Egyptians. Why would you base your assumptions on Carl Sagans point of view when he clearly hasn't researched the tribe itself. In fact, very little people actually know enough about the tribe to suggest otherwise. Where are the European words in their lexicon, or ancient telescopes design by Europeans? How could a European teach an entire dogon community when the "Hogon" ( spiritual leader) is literally untouchable for his ENTIRE life.

  76. Ryan Arko says:

    I only see challenges to the article and the response is from people saying essentially "he's white, so he's gotta be lying."

    Whatever. Enjoy the rung of the socio-economic ladder you let yourself be put in. If you want to be stupid, that's on you. But "his race defines his accuracy" is NEVER an acceptable position regardless of the people involved.

  77. Ryan Arko says:

    Dime Wars The Sumerians introduced writing to the region. I don't imagine science being effective without the means to record it. Sumerians invented numbers. They were responsible for dividing time according to how we use it today. They were responsible for revolutionizing the wheel for transportation and trade. The Sumerians also tracked and recorded the stars movements as the earliest form of astronomy.

    There is no mention in the article of the significance of semetic people. This is the part that says "uninformed."

    The part about race baiting is the repeated claim that NDT and Cosmos are ignoring African contributions to science. Cultures across the world dabbled in astronomy. The Mayans were infinitely more accurate than the Egyptians when it came to time and the position of the planets.

    But we don't hear the author talking about arabs, jews, asians, american natives, or any others being excluded. No, Cosmos hates black people, according to the author.

  78. Ryan Arko says:

    Vincent Meadows This was easy to check. Wikipedia summarizes it, but numerous pages go into detail.
    The Dogon never made a claim they could see Sirius B. Instead, they theorized that Sirius had two other stars in it's system. There is a Sirius B, but there is no Sirius C. This means that on top of never having seen Sirius B, they were wrong in their assumptions.

    Continuing, there is dispute among the Dogon people which star is Sirius. Uh oh, this advanced science apparently got lost when they were made known to the world. How can you be so advanced to "see Sirius B" with a naked eye and then not even know which star is Sirius A?

    From Wikipedia: In a 1991 article in Current Anthropology anthropologist Walter van Beek concluded after his research among the Dogon that, "Though they do speak about sigu tolo [which is what Griaule claimed the Dogon called Sirius] they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule."

    I'm sorry NDT isn't giving credit to African scientists after five episodes. If it comforts you any, he hasn't given credit to the Mayans, Azteks, the Anglicans, the Chinese, or any other group of people who had the same basic understanding of science. Heck, the Sumerians, who were entirely superior in scientific contribution (writing, numbers, time, technology, agriculture) haven't been given lip service either.

    Regardless, there is no need for a European to teach an entire tribe of Africans astronomy. No such claim was made and they currently make their lackluster astronomic knowledge apparent even today.

    Please, give this info to Nzingha just a few comments below, because it does nothing to dwell on misinformation as fact. Repeatedly claiming the Dogon people were smarter than Nasa is as bad as the anti-vaxxer autism claims. The Dogon could be the most advanced civilization on earth today. Their color doesn't affect that. My color doesn't affect that. They could be the most advanced civilization on earth today, but they are not superior astronomers. They could be the people who cure all disease, but they did not say they saw Sirius B. They could be the people who usher world peace, but they can't spot Venus in the sky.

  79. Ryan Arko says:

    Nzingha Shabaka No one can believe the Dogon people saw Sirius B because even the Dogon people don't believe they saw Sirius B. They were told about Sirius B by Marcel Griaule, the man who told the world about the Dogon Sirius B claim.

    The reason no one believes black people built the pyramids is that they were built by Semitic people. It's easy to tell what Semitic people look like. Look at Iraqi and Israeli people. That's what Semitic people look like.

    How many other things are you going to wrongfully credit black people with? Maybe gunpowder (asians)? Computer science (caucasians/anglicans)? Physiology (spaniards)?

    The wealth of contributions from black thinkers is enormous and significant to our continued advancement in society. It's disheartening that you are so conspiratorially racist that you think so little of your own people that you have to hijack accomplishments from other cultures just to fluff up what is in your mind, a limited list of accomplishments.

    Sad when the white guy recognizes black innovation and ingenuity and those efforts go marginalized by the ignorant few among their own people. Open a book. Learn the difference between being proud of your race and being bitter toward every other race.

  80. Ryan Arko says:

    Seriously? Antisemitism is your position? The reason we teach Eurocentric science is that the records still exist. That's why he addressed some Asian sciences as well.
    The theories discussed so far (evolution, big bang, gravity, light, etc.) were all introduced and refined by Europeans researchers.

  81. Ryan Arko says:

    Egan Penney The Dogon thing was debunked decades ago. It's heartbreaking to see you explain to each individual that they are learning hokum and calling it reality, just to have them say "you're white, so you're disqualified" or what seems to be their only argument "dogon people."

  82. Ryan Arko says:

    Cree Seven Your BTW for any reason is irrelevant. He could be a purple dinosaur, it has no bearing on the authenticity of information being incorrectly labeled as "fact" in this article.

    As I happily wrote to the others who cry about the Dogon people, they never claimed to see Sirius B. They assumed Sirius had two other stars in it's system (it only has one). They didn't know there was a Sirius until Marcel Griaule told them about it. When questioned many years later, the Dogon people claimed Sirius B was an invisible star. Others among the people pointed to Venus.

    Any other bullshit you want to peddle or is my being white a disqualifier? If it is, it's got to be a shitty life to only accept subjective truth. Never mind. I read your post on Wealthy Black People.
    You do know that the majority of those wealthy white men made their money before black people had the right to vote? No, I bet that doesn't even matter to you. White people are white people and they're ALL out to hold the black people down.

    Racist. B*tch.

  83. Ryan Arko 1.) Please don't make assumptions about what I believe or what I think of of the show and African scientists. My original dispute was Africans somehow could not have figured out astrology without European help. To Carl Sagan and apparently Egan too it was important for Europeans to teach Africans Astrology. THEY made that claim I was simply refuting that by noting African traditions and social customs. Mind you the Dogon don't have anything to prove to outsiders, they are isolationist and that is perfectly fine.

    2.) You lost me at from "From Wikipedia…. for a community so hell bent on scientific research you would think you would actually read about the tribe first before taking tidbits from random Europeans writings who had not real understanding of the inner working of Dogon beliefs

    3.) Had I quoted and African scholar I would be labeled as "Afrocentric" with know real historical value. What Europeans write off as "mythology" is actually local religious belief grounded in the understanding of the world around them. Not just some shotty stories by random Africans. The Dogon ritual is complete in various stages. One Every year, one every 15years and one every 60 years

    4.) The Dogon believed in Siruis B (Po Tolo) this was observed as early as the 1930's in a ritual going on since the 13th century. Various generations practiced this belief system and ritual. If you would have actually read about the tribe itself you would have known this. They fled persecution from various groups throughout the centuries. In that area African civilizations , Ghana, Mali and, Songhai had established Universities and learning centers were Astrology and cosmology was readily understood. I know shocking primitive Africans figured out the world around them before the all mighty white man showed up.

  84. Cree Seven says:

    Ryan Arko , yes, that you are a white person disqualifies you as anyone with whom I would voluntarily exchange views about racism (white domination).

  85. Ryan Arko says:

    smithlovy He said "our ancestors." You could be white as snow or black as the night, your ancestors experienced the same thing my ancestors experienced.
    I suppose you don't know anything about the Toba Catastrophe? You know, the event around the end of our last Ice Age where the population dropped to fewer than 10,000 people. With fewer than 10,000 breeding pairs, it's impossible to say you and I don't have a common ancestor within the last 70,000 years.

    So, you, me, and Neil all have ancestors who suffered through a seemingly endless winter. That said, it's not wise to call others dense when you clearly don't know enough to brag that you know better.

  86. Ryan Arko says:

    smithlovy Oh my fucking Me! When are you going to stop crying about this persecution. Black people have one of numerous short ends of the stick. Do you want to keep crying about it? Or are you going to change it.

    The 1960's was the last time a black man stood up and said "I'm tired of the way things are and it's not going to get done sitting on my ass complaining." The f'n 60's!

    My father complained about affirmative action for years. I told him to quit crying, too. He doesn't like the way things are, he should change those things. My wife is Mexican. Her family doesn't like the way Mexicans are treated in America. That's fine. They can get off their asses and do something about it.
    Anglicans fought off the countless others to get to where they are now. That will never be used to excuse the way they used their power throughout history, but it is the reason you're not complaining An Shi or Mohammad are keeping your people down.

    Stop crying and actually do something you whiny, persecution complex addled, pussy. It's so fucking easy to say "whitey is the reason for my problems" and to do nothing about it. Try something hard besides keyboard racism.

  87. Egan Penney says:

    Vincent Meadows astronomy, you bleeding idiot, astronomy!

  88. Egan Penney No need for name calling . My usage of the term was correct in noting that the Dogon did have a faith and ritual system surrounding their findings. Hence the term astrology in that context. Save the condescension please.

  89. Egan Penney says:

    Vincent Meadows every culture did! it's science that destroyed those kinds of beliefs! or so i thought, until i came to this site and saw people believing absolute bullshit!

  90. Tom Davidson says:

    Ahmad Khalid Qadafi – Once again, we're not even halfway through the series. Billion people or not, during the Renaissance and Enlightenment, while Europe was in the midst of a scientific and artistic explosion, much of Africa was still living a lifestyle that hadn't changed much for thousands of years. This is likely due, at least in part, to the much less concentrated and more nomadic lifestyle of Africans. I think there is a case to be made for societal concentration allowing ideas and discoveries to feed of off each other and accelerate knowledge. Sadly, there also does not seem to be the same kind of documentation for African contributions, scientific or otherwise, that we see for European and Asian cultures. I'm not saying they aren't there, but are probably much harder to find and less known. The bigger point being this: It is clear that the "Side-Eye" comments the author refers to all seem to be centered around his perception of the show slighting people of color. This in and of itself shows the author's bias and agenda. If the points he took issue with were not all somehow related to this, I'd say differently. But it seems clear to me that the author is just looking to play the race card and stir the pot, and doing that with a show hosted and driven by a man of color, and not even seeing the series through. Far from acknowledging the fact that one of the brightest minds and most engaging personalities we have in the WORLD right is a man of color form The Bronx, and writing a piece that celebrates that, the author chooses to find fault through tenuous and ill-conceived rebuttal of what is being presented.

  91. Ryan Arko The pyramids were built long before anyone got to Kemit. No one there but black skin African people. Hyjack accomplishments of other people, you got to be kidding. That is what you do. Whites, Arabs came to Africa saw all the accomplishments, they were in shock and awe, all that they did not understand they destroyed it, and took credit for it, look at the spink, every human statue over ninty percet of their nose has been destroyed. Where did you get your information? I will tell you where, it came from white curriculum, that has been inbeded in your mind, in our children minds, that whites, and some Asians created civilization You know what they say, history presented by the conquorers, are always distraughted, and lies.. Your guy Winston Churchill, said, "History will be kind to me, because I intend to write it". So the first people on the planet, Africans, just what did we do? We had been here hundreds of years before anybody else. So I bet you say, we we swinging around in trees, and having sex. I do not need you telling me how to feel, what has happened to African people at the hands of whites and Arabs, it is mind bloggling. No more history lessons from you. Thank you.

  92. @Egan

    All I did was do a tit for tat with supplying authority for evidence.

    Scholars don't take Ivan Van Sertima seriously? Really? I was anticipating a better response from you. I'm disappointed.

    I don't know where to start with Ivan Van Sertima's scholarly accomplishments, and scholars taking him seriously, but lets start here:

    He has been honored as an historian of world repute by being asked to join UNESCO's International Commission for Rewriting the Scientific and Cultural History of Mankind.

    He is the author of They Came Before Columbus: The African Presence in Ancient America, which was published by Random House in 1977 and is presently in its twenty-ninth printing. It was awarded the Clarence L. Holte Prize, a prize awarded every two years “for a work of excellence in literature and the humanities relating to the cultural heritage of Africa and the African diaspora.”

    Professor of African Studies at Rutgers University, Dr. Van Sertima was also Visiting Professor at Princeton University.

    n 1991 Dr. Van Sertima defended his highly controversial thesis on the African presence in pre-Columbian America before the Smithsonian. In 1994 the Smithsonian published his address in Race, Discourse and the Origin of the Americas: A New World View of 1492.

    He was also asked by Congress to appear before a Congressional Committee on July 7, 1987 to challenge the Columbus myth. This landmark presentation before Congress was illuminating and brilliantly presented in the name of all peoples of color across the world.

  93. speaking of scholarly bias, in cosmos it was stated that modern human abstract thought originated in Europe. Scientist made this assertion based on rock painting discovered there 40,000 years ago. However, at least 2 to 3 years ago evidence has shown that rock paintings of the same caliber found in Europe have been found in South Africa some 70,000 years ago or more. Why do you think the creators of cosmos didn't share this information with the audience?

    This is to sensible black people, home school your children, get them the hell out of these schools, public or private. If not, this is what they are going to be up against.

  94. Egan Penney says:

    Collin Johnson

    big surprise, i can find nothing confirming this claim. the oldest cave paintings are in spain, dating back about 40800 years, and it's been suggested they were created by neanderthals rather than homo sapiens.

    stop making shit up and then claiming there's a conspiracy!

  95. Raia Pagan says:

    That is not true.. the very lead based makeup they wore around their eyes was a result of their understanding of chemistry due to how they created the product. Try again..

  96. Raia Pagan says:

    That is not true.. the very lead based makeup they wore around their eyes was a result of their understanding of chemistry due to how they created the product. Try again..

  97. Ryan Arko says:

    Vincent Meadows The dismissing of the Wikipedia quote tells me you have no interest in learning. You know what's great about Wikipedia, even if you think it's somehow invalid information? Citations.

    For your benefit, not mine, I offered you an easily accessible tidbit of information so you wouldn't be furthering what is known today to be a bullshit lie.

    There us a major difference between astrology and astronomy. The former believes stars hold magic spiritual power that dictate the character of people and events in life. The latter is the study of the stars.

    As well, there is a significant difference "religious cosmology" and "physical cosmology." Astrology and religious cosmology are hokum. It's no better than shaking a cup with bones and spitting on whatever rolls out.

    Now, I've indicated very openly that my dismissal of the bullshit Dogon claim has nothing to do with race. It's about truth and fact. The Dogon people can be white as a piano key, it doesn't change the fact that if they indeed made the claim they saw Sirius B without modern technology, then they made the claim they saw a red dwarf star Sirius C, which doesn't exist.
    Are they 50% accurate in astronomy? Or was it just an false claim by an attention seeking Frenchman? The facts laid out, it's one or the other.

    Are they inept? Or did some white guy lie through his teeth while sucking down snails?

    Let me quote you. Since you're neither white nor Wikipedia, maybe you won't ignore your own words (you will, though):
    "The Dogon believed in Sirius B…this was observed as early as the 1930's." Who observed it, I wonder?

    Oh yeah, French anthropologist Marcel Griaule, who studied them from 1931 to 1956. The only reason you are even aware of this nonsense is because Marcel Griaule wrote about it.

    But again, they believed in po tolo? They also believed in emme ya tolo, which again, doesn't fucking exist anywhere in the night sky.

    Do you want to try your crack at racially biased science again? Actual science doesn't care if you're white or black. It cares about truth whatever it may be. And the truth is, either your Dogon were shitty astronomers (because astrologists tend to be) or you're fighting tooth and nail for a lie told by a white man.

    Do you know why Cosmos is Eurocentric? It's not.
    Big Bang? Proposed by Georges Lemaitre. Belgian.
    Evolution? Charles Darwin. English. While the Dogon and the rest of Africa practiced animist religion, thinking the skies were omens and rocks had spirits, Greek philosopher Anaximander was one of the first to suggest animal-to-human origins. The Pentateuch was barely started when he made this claim.
    Speed of light? Empedocles. Sicily. Alhazen. Arabic Egyptian. Johannes Kepler. German. Galileo. Italian. Newton. English. Einstein. German.

    Do you see what I'm getting at? A show that discusses science talks about the science isn't being racist. NDT, Fox, NatGeo, they addressed "science" from tribal people when they mentioned that comets were viewed as omens.
    The Dogon believe in a three-star system but one of those stars don't exist. They believe another becomes invisible. Yeah. Hard-hitting science so far. They believe that Venus is Sirius. They believe Polaris is Sirius. That's the best of the best in an animist tribe's astrological "science" and you're pissed at white people because the rest of the scientific community (of all races and genders and religious beliefs) thinks it's invalid scientific observation?

  98. Egan Penney says:

    Raia Pagan i hope that's a joke

  99. Egan Penney says:

    Raia Pagan i hope that's a joke

  100. Raia Pagan says:

    Egan Penney your first comment got shut down.. why are you still here? it won't make you right!

  101. Raia Pagan says:

    Egan Penney It's not a joke! You don't know about egyptology clearly, I've read this from a scholarly source by an anthropologist. You can shut up now.

  102. Raia Pagan says:

    So glad people shut this stupid ass comment down. 🙂

  103. Egan Penney says:

    Ryan Arko that a large number of discoveries were made by europeans is an accident of history and economics. the discoveries happen where the funding is. that's why it's usually the US now, europe before, and the middle east before that. the same with pre-scientific discoveries in ancient greece and china, and the nile and tigris/euphrates regions before that.

  104. Egan Penney says:

    Raia Pagan you're using makeup as an example of a major achievement? that's hilarious

  105. Raia Pagán says:

    Egan Penney I wasn't.. your use of deliberate misinterpretation to be condescending isn't hilarious but quite pathetic. Shoo, shoo.

  106. Tom Davidson says:

    Raia Pagan Without you giving more specifics of the lead make-up thing, I'm going to agree that it's a bad example to argue from. Just because he's figured out that horse crap sticks to his boots better than chicken crap, does make a farmer a chemist. Noticing a pattern in the stars does not make one an astronomer. Being able to drive a car does not make one a mechanic. Being able to open up an internet browser and type does not make one an IT Specialist. Tyson gives examples of people that discovered underlying universal principles, or accurately calculated and documented laws of physics or mechanisms of biology. This is far different from giving credit to some ancient culture as the discoverer of botany because they noticed that seeds turn into plants. Understanding THAT something happens is far different from understanding WHY something happens.

  107. Raia Pagán says:

    Tom Davidson They did practice chemistry. Obviously not of the modern caliber, but they did and they KNEW what they were doing. You don't have to agree to that, but it is a fact. Sorry (not really). You obviously want to downplay achievements of the ancients, that's your prerogative.

  108. Egan Penney says:

    Raia Pagan you have a funny definition of shut down

  109. Ryan Arko says:

    Egan Penney Essentially what I'm arguing in regard to why Cosmos discusses what Vincent and others refer to as a Eurocentric scientific view.
    That Vincent is desperately clinging to this false Dogon claim is evidence to me that he has no intention of abandoning his position of "if it came from white people, disregard it."

    I am not placing any significance on the European scientific discoveries other than the fact that they happened. These discoveries didn't rely on pseudoscience and the supernatural and that's why they are accurate and held in regard on Cosmos.
    The discoveries have nothing to do with the race of the people. The history of the discoveries happen to be, as you said, European by "accident of history and economics."

    But we are acknowledging that there is no significance to race or happenstance in scientific discovery. Vincent, Cree, Collin, they are fired up with this conspiracy that somehow, black people are being intentionally marginalized. It's sad because there are mountains of scientific contributions from black scientists, but these handful would rather cling to a false anecdote that ultimately makes the Dogon look incompetent.

    I would enjoy the discussion of science on here if I didn't have to wade through the "white people are out to get us" comments.

  110. Egan Penney says:

    "african presence in ancient america"

    wow. bullshit to rival even mormonism. impressive.

  111. Egan Penney says:

    you'd think it would be enough that africa was the birthplace of humanity, and our use of language and tools. but no, apparently we have to rewrite every other damn thing in history and pretend they started there too.

  112. Egan Penney says:

    Ryan Arko i wasn't disagreeing, i was trying to add to your point.

    i think the fact that black scientists in wealthy countries make the same kind of contributions as any other scientists shows that if the happenstance of history had determined that african countries had become a major economic power rather than european countries, and been the successor to the economic power of the middle east, that science would have flourished in africa just the same. maybe even better, without the influence of christianity. but it just happens that china never discovered optics because they didn't have glass, muslim society became experts in navigation and astronomy because they needed to know where mecca was from every side of their empire, leading to al-haytham's establishment of scientific practice durng HIS work in optics, and europeans happened to trip over a fortune in new world resources while trying to find asia with only half a clue, not to mention were able to use their chinese guns to force africans to collect those resources for free, and were able to use that economic power to support research. this shit is random. humans happened to stumble on science in the course of trying to kill each other over brainless reasons. but it is still the best thing we have, and the only thing that can straighten us out. but that doesn't work if we keep putting our biases and petty rivalries ahead of what the actual evidence hows. including history.

  113. Egan Penney

    "African Presence in Ancient America"is bullshit?
    I guess you've read it? What specifically is bullshit about it?

  114. Levon DeMarquis Valle says:

    Is it just me or does this article seem like it was plagiarized? I swear I've seen a similar article critiquing cosmos before.

  115. Egan Penney says:

    Collin Johnson that it's completely baseless pseudohistory that no genuine scholar would take seriously?

  116. Jon Mo' says:

    Collin Johnson Trust but verify, right?

    In a word. Ouch!!

    "Claims of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact involve interactions that are supposed to have occurred between indigenous peoples of the Americas, who settled the Americas before 10,000 BC, and peoples of other continents (Africa, Asia, Europe, or Oceania) before the arrival of Christopher Columbus in the Caribbean in 1492.[1] Such proposals have usually been based on narrative accounts interpreted to be about trans-ocean voyages, archaeological finds, and cultural comparisons. Claims of contacts (other than the Norse Greenland settlements and the settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland[2][3]) are generally controversial and debated, in part because of the ambiguous or circumstantial evidence cited by proponents. The scientific responses to such pre-Columbian-contact claims range from occasional consideration in peer-reviewed publications to dismissal as fringe science or pseudoarcheology."

  117. Egan Penney no one is rewriting anything. you white racist idiot. we were smarter stronger and better than your people while your people were screwing sheep in the fields. period. we built the pyramids, the chinese invented MOST of what white later claimed to have invented. that is not to disparage the last 4-6 centuries of white agression, and free enterprise. yeah you guys came up with some good stuff but you did it on the pillars of previous great civilizations. so stop crying about rewriting history. the greeks tried to do that when they invaded egypt and started whitening the population. the romans did it when they beat hannibal and the sicilians to this day get upset if you call them black or mixed. HUMANITY has come up with some awesome shit and what we call science to day has its roots in the intelligence of many peoples from around the world. now you can go in the corner and cry how every story was stolen from hamlet or some other eurocentric nonsense.

  118. Egan Penney says:

    Kenneth Lewis you're the only racist here, kenneth. white people come from africa too. the earliest agricultural civilisations developed in the nile, tigris euphrates, and indus valleys. afrocentrism is as much of bulshit as eurocentrism.

  119. Kwesi Saku says:

    Egan Penney you may want to look up the moors.

  120. A.m. Medina says:

    You are a moron…

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